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S12 R01 Dubai Grand Prix - Incidents

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1 S12 R01 Dubai Grand Prix - Incidents on 5th March 2017, 2:35 pm

REPORT YOUR INCIDENT(S) HERE 


IN 24HOURS AFTER THE RACE


LAP & TURN





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2 Re: S12 R01 Dubai Grand Prix - Incidents on 5th March 2017, 4:48 pm

Arek vs Antonio - Lap 20 - Pit entry

Arek overtook me off the track on the dirt while I was entering pits in pit entry lane. He left the track with all 4 wheels TWICE in the process, and after 2nd time rejoined pit entry lane right before final right hander cutting right in front of me and causing me damage on the front suspension.

OFF TOPIC

Another question, why didnt this "sand" "gravel" or whatever unstabilize his car like the sand I caught with my car at the exit of the last turn of the last lap with ONLY one wheel marginaly, and that cost me the race, and he just goes off all around me with all 4 wheels like nothing happened! I was leading up until 10 meters before finish line and that cost me, because it looked like he is alongside me and I didnt want to push him on right so we can finish fairly and not cause some stupid big crash.



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3 Re: S12 R01 Dubai Grand Prix - Incidents on 5th March 2017, 6:08 pm

- Deliberate chat in quali (Joe McLaggen)

Basic golden rule in the league - no excuses for that..
If there are any other problems going on that must be discussed, there's the right places and time for that (NEVER during an official quali and/or race session) - and this goes for everyone.

...

- Lap 1, T1 - Contact + Spin + time & all positions lost (down to last place)

I'm sorry, but I braked enough to take T1 on the inside line, withOUT letting my car go wide and hitting others, BUT... cars from the middle line (Sven, mainly) just switched lines (ignoring the fact that there was a car on the inside line - me) and came right into me (clearly leaving LESS than 1-car-width, so there was nothing I could do there) and caused the contact and all of the mess that came after that.

I believe it wasn't on purpose or anything. I'm just 'proving' that it wasn't MY fault - and it wasn't also a 'race incident' - it was a car switching lines into another car's line/path, causing the contact, so.. jah.. - whole race ruined on T1.. sweet!!

...

- Lap 5, Last corner - Contact + Spin + time & positions lost

I'm pretty sure Gatis didn't do it on purpose - and maybe he had more wings than me and could take the corners a bit faster - but still he wasn't careful enough (or was a bit too optimistic to try to overtake there, 'diving' his car after I was already turning and going tighter for the corner appex) and the contact happened, I spun, lost time, places and etc...

Keep in mind I finished about 7 secs. away from the podium and 11 secs. from the win, considering both incidents I had, so.. yep.. race result(s) could've been a LOT different and these incidents weren't mere 'race incidents' or self mistakes - we must all be more careful, guys..

...

I ask the stewards to check MY OWN replay files, to see exactly what I saw on my screen in the moment of the incidents - I also suggest the other involved drivers to upload their own replay files as well, just in case there was some lag involved.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/74u4sdf7ca3f0zx




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4 Re: S12 R01 Dubai Grand Prix - Incidents on 5th March 2017, 6:52 pm

Arek

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Antonio Hreljanovic 1 wrote:Arek vs Antonio - Lap 20 - Pit entry

Arek overtook me off the track on the dirt while I was entering pits in pit entry lane. He left the track with all 4 wheels TWICE in the process, and after 2nd time rejoined pit entry lane right before final right hander cutting right in front of me and causing me damage on the front suspension.
Last season we raced in the same tarck and to have everything clarified before the race I asked Sexy if we can pit like that. He said it was ok and I can pit whatever I like so I did. There was even a video posted by someone in which you could see me make exactly the same entrance and even people were laughing about that on whatsapp. I also pitted the same way in every test race including last season and now and nobody ever said it was wrong.

So since we raced in the same track today I didn't feel there was a need to ask about the same thing again (there wasn't any briefing before the race or anything that sth has changed since last season) and just raced being sure it's legal.

On that lap I saw him pull over much too early considering to what I knew how a legal fast entry should look so I was like why not to take my chance to overtake him there? I had like a second to take a decision and just went for it. It pulled me a litte bit wide that's true but I let him go on the next lap so it was nothing that decided about the race result. If I get a penalty losing my well deserved win beucase I went 10cm too wide at a very tough spot that will be the biggest joke ever Shocked

Another question, why didnt this "sand" "gravel" or whatever unstabilize his car like the sand I caught with my car at the exit of the last turn of the last lap with ONLY one wheel marginaly, and that cost me the race, and he just goes off all around me with all 4 wheels like nothing happened! I was leading up until 10 meters before finish line and that cost me, because it looked like he is alongside me and I didnt want to push him on right so we can finish fairly and not cause some stupid big crash.
You had the oportunity to practice before the race. You could've checked everything also how the "sand" behaves in each place. I did and thought it was obvious to everyone that you can't go wide even with one litte part of the wheel in turns like the final one or the long super fast left hander beucase you will get slowed down and on the other hand in some places sand doesn't affect you that much like at the pit entrance. If there was "bad sand" at the pit entrance last season I wouldn't have asked about the way we can pit beucase it would be useless.  So sorry but it was only your fault  Razz

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5 Re: S12 R01 Dubai Grand Prix - Incidents on 5th March 2017, 7:01 pm

I'm sorry, Arek, but I never said it was ok to go 'wide' after that first little right corner at the pit entrance.

When you asked me about the pit entrance last season, I said (I meant) that it was ok to go from 'track' to 'pit entrance' in anyways you wanted - with a very small cut it was almost impossible avoid - I NEVER said it was ok to go wide after that little corner and gain a lot of (obvious ilegal) time with that.

We need no 'briefing' about that, because that's already included on the regular rules - that we should not go out of the track limits to gain some time, except for very few occasions, in which we would be allowed to do - like the very pit entrance (from track to beginning of the actual pit lane).

And yes, based on your point of view, your move over Tony would be 'legal', because as you said yourself, you assumed it was legal to go wide like that, but.. EVERYBODY else was avoiding to go wide there and respecting the pit entrance as much as they could - just like Tony did - and then you overtook him from the outside of track limits, while he was being careful and doing the right thing..

I honestly think that was a dirty move, even if you made it without a dirty intention. And IMO, you should've simply given the place back - I would feel terrible to get someone else's place with a move like that, but you don't seem to bother (hopefully it's just because you assumed that wider pit entrance was allowed and not because you're a smart-ass), but.. all of this is not up to me to decide - the other stewards will deliberate about it.

I just felt the need to clarify this, since you said I said it was 'ok' to do that - which I didn't.




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6 Re: S12 R01 Dubai Grand Prix - Incidents on 5th March 2017, 7:11 pm

THIS is what I meant - I thought it was pretty much obvious and self-explanatory...

On the 'green situation', there's practically no time gained and everybody was doing it, because it's really hard to avoid not doing it (because that's literally a blind entrance and drivers have to 'guess' the exact turning point).

On the 'red situation', there's OBVIOUSLY a LOT of time gained and that's actually easy to avoid, so everybody should avoid doing it and just respect the track (pit lane) limits.

Still, once again I say: not up to me to decide if your move on Tony was legal or not, so.. whatevs.. - I myself think it wasn't a legit pass (to say the least), but once again: this is just my personal opinion, so.. it doesn't matter, right?!..




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7 Re: S12 R01 Dubai Grand Prix - Incidents on 5th March 2017, 7:32 pm

Arek

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That's what I did. 100% legit move. He claims I cut twice in process... I ovetook him beucase he had slowed down too much taking wrong approach, not beucase I went 10cm too wide and it was crutial to complete the move. It wasn't.

And yes, based on your point of view, your move over Tony would be 'legal', because as you said yourself, you assumed it was legal to go wide like that, but.. EVERYBODY else was avoiding to go wide there and respecting the pit entrance as much as they could - just like Tony did
I don't get it. Am I supposed to be a babysiter for the others of what? Everyone takes care of themselves. I knew taking the pit entrance like that was totally legal and was I suposed to tell everyone "hey do it like me, it's faster!"? I thought we are competing?  Neutral

I honestly think that was a dirty move, even if you made it without a dirty intention. And IMO, you should've simply given the place back
As I said, I let him go on the next lap so again if I get a penalty it will be the biggest joke ever  Rolling Eyes

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8 Re: S12 R01 Dubai Grand Prix - Incidents on 5th March 2017, 7:36 pm

Arek

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And that what you drew in red I hope it doesn't represent the line I took there...  Rolling Eyes
If I did sth like that you could say it was smartass move but I was doing my best to stick to the track there. Didn't go 10m wide but 10cm!  Rolling Eyes

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9 Re: S12 R01 Dubai Grand Prix - Incidents on 5th March 2017, 7:39 pm

Yes, it does.

Maybe not perfectly what you did, but I just wanted the two examples of what could be considered 'ok' and what would not.

...

"I knew taking the pit entrance like that was totally legal"

You ASSUMED that (because you didn't get what I said about the pit entrance correctly), but that was NEVER an 'official allowance' from the League Admins.

And to be totally honest, I think it's just a matter of common sense here...
It's pretty obvious that going wide like that should NOT be 'ok' - why do you think EVERYONE was avoiding it?

And well, if you gave him the place back after the pit stop, that's good - and also 'proves' you actually knew what you did was unfair... - but still you caused damage to him with your crazy 'rejoin'..

But anyways.. I'm not Tony's lawyer.. He can defend himself if he wants - and the stewards will judge and decide, not me.

The race was tight and nice between you two and whoever get the win would deserve it.
I was just hoping it would be a 100% clean and legit, but once again, I'm not the one actually judging it.. Just sharing my opinions and thoughts on the matter - and clarifying that I NEVER said it was ok to go wide on that entrance (not last season and certainly, not now as well).




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10 Re: S12 R01 Dubai Grand Prix - Incidents on 5th March 2017, 7:42 pm

Arek wrote: It pulled me a litte bit wide that's true but I let him go on the next lap so it was nothing that decided about the race result. If I get a penalty losing my well deserved win beucase I went 10cm too wide at a very tough spot that will be the biggest joke ever Shocked 

You had the oportunity to practice before the race. You could've checked everything also how the "sand" behaves in each place. I did and thought it was obvious to everyone that you can't go wide even with one litte part of the wheel in turns like the final one or the long super fast left hander beucase you will get slowed down and on the other hand in some places sand doesn't affect you that much like at the pit entrance. If there was "bad sand" at the pit entrance last season I wouldn't have asked about the way we can pit beucase it would be useless.  So sorry but it was only your fault  Razz
You let me go next lap? More like I overtook you hard workingly. Race result was 0.020 seconds between you and me and you gained way more than that on both 1st and 2nd stop especialy, including gaining track position which was even more vital. And saying losing your well deserved win, what about me losing my well deserved win after your moves? I got pole even after screwing up my lap, I got fastest lap, I was clearly faster than you today, only reason why you were so close is because of straights, so dont start by well deserved win, I agree if you had done your pitstops normaly it would be very well deserved, even like this you had great performance but saying this like that, like I didnt deserve it is really pathetic.

I practiced, and more than you. Sand is sand it should be same everywhere on track, if its different it should be marked with different texture like kerbs are. You were going around exiting on sand everywhere lap after lap as well as braking, and your car reacted completely normaly, you went to such extremes that at times you were almost all four wheels on the sand to gain for entrance on the corner and on braking and your car reacted completely normaly like it was driving on tarmac. And you exited "long super fast left" with wheels on sand many times, I check my mirrors and see shit. 

I got better drive out of the last corner and it was my win, you were right next to me and I didnt want to hit you by going right so I clipped that shit thinking its gonna be like every other sand, because I never did mistake there up until that point to know what that sand is like, and I dont go around track driving off it to see where I can gain advantage by acting like Im playing farming simulator 2016, because this is F1 championship, this cars were not designed to get carrots out of the ground. And there you go past me. Thats what trying to be fair gets you it seems.



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11 Re: S12 R01 Dubai Grand Prix - Incidents on 5th March 2017, 7:46 pm

Arek

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I missed one quote so I'm posting again so everyone knows what's the sentence I refered to at the begining

When you asked me about the pit entrance last season, I said (I meant) that it was ok to go from 'track' to 'pit entrance' in anyways you wanted - with a very small cut it was almost impossible avoid

That's what I did. 100% legit move. He claims I cut twice in process... I ovetook him beucase he had slowed down too much taking wrong approach, not beucase I went 10cm too wide and it was crutial to complete the move. It wasn't.

And yes, based on your point of view, your move over Tony would be 'legal', because as you said yourself, you assumed it was legal to go wide like that, but.. EVERYBODY else was avoiding to go wide there and respecting the pit entrance as much as they could - just like Tony did
I don't get it. Am I supposed to be a babysiter for the others of what? Everyone takes care of themselves. I knew taking the pit entrance like that was totally legal and was I suposed to tell everyone "hey do it like me, it's faster!"? I thought we are competing?   

I honestly think that was a dirty move, even if you made it without a dirty intention. And IMO, you should've simply given the place back
As I said, I let him go on the next lap so again if I get a penalty it will be the biggest joke ever  

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12 Re: S12 R01 Dubai Grand Prix - Incidents on 5th March 2017, 7:57 pm

Arek

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Antonio Hreljanovic 1 wrote:You let me go next lap? More like I overtook you hard workingly.
https://goo.gl/photos/845YWUde2MGWJEWS6

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13 Re: S12 R01 Dubai Grand Prix - Incidents on 5th March 2017, 8:19 pm

Arek wrote:
Antonio Hreljanovic 1 wrote:You let me go next lap? More like I overtook you hard workingly.
https://goo.gl/photos/845YWUde2MGWJEWS6
That one was because you closed door on me very agressively in quick left hander two corners before you let me past, whole lap needs to be seen before that happened in that case. Makes no sense letting someone through lap later for thing you did waaaay earlier, defending agressively whole lap in the process, also you said you were sure that was legal and right, why would you let me pass for that then?



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14 Re: S12 R01 Dubai Grand Prix - Incidents on 5th March 2017, 9:14 pm

Arek

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Antonio Hreljanovic 1 wrote:
Arek wrote:
Antonio Hreljanovic 1 wrote:You let me go next lap? More like I overtook you hard workingly.
https://goo.gl/photos/845YWUde2MGWJEWS6
That one was because you closed door on me very agressively in quick left hander two corners before you let me past, whole lap needs to be seen before that happened in that case.
Here?
https://goo.gl/photos/rccCCnvfQCfMz1Az7
Pliss...  Rolling Eyes

Makes no sense letting someone through lap later for thing you did waaaay earlier, defending agressively whole lap in the process, also you said you were sure that was legal and right, why would you let me pass for that then?
It wasn't a lap later. It was the lap we opened right after the incident. If I was 100% I was at fault there I would've let you go stratight away. I was sure and still I am that my entrance even though it was super agressive was legal to what I knew.

As I said I had pitted like that last season two times during the race, everyone saw it and I didn't get any penalty for that. And Sexy can be blabbing as much as he wants that i only assumed it was legal but it's bullshit. Last season during one of our test races people did that and I asked if entering the pits like that is legal or not. And as he just confirmed he said yes. And now he's saying it wasn't official or sth. How could it not have been official? If it wasn't official I would've got a penalty for pitting like that two times and I might've lost the championship beucase the gap was small at that point and I won that race! Who knows... Rolling Eyes 

And if I got a penalty back then for sure now I wouldn't have tried to repeat it.

You also entered the pits in a similar way I checked the replay.
https://goo.gl/photos/TywQ7V3zJAcy5hEd9
https://goo.gl/photos/kMr831L1VFG6Zioq9

Really a huge difference! If you had taken that according to what was "supposed to be official" as some says you wouldn't have cut that sand as well but you did.

So once again I was 100% sure that I had full right to attack you at that place. I did and then after that I went a litte bit wide. I was confused. I didn't know whether it let me complete the pass or not, wheter I did that when the pass had already been completed or not. I'm playing from cokpit view and I dinn't even see where you were exactly.  I took some time to think. I knew you were going to complain about that so since we had spent all the race so far battling each other and overtaking one another multiple times I decided to let you go beucase it wouldn't matter at all and I did. As simple as that.

You and Sexy are acting like I fought with you close and tight for the entire race, driving fair living space just to fuck you up at this very one moment to overtake you like an idiot outside the track limits adn win the race. That's ridiculous  Neutral

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15 Re: S12 R01 Dubai Grand Prix - Incidents on 5th March 2017, 9:30 pm

Arek, which part of the picture you did NOT understand?!..



You showed Tony doing the "YES" part of it, which is clearly the 'ok part' - as I said everyone did too, for that pit entrance is 'blind' and it's almost impossible to avoid that - and there's practically NO time gained there.

What you did was the "NO" part of it - which is where you actually gain (a LOT) if time (ilegally) - so, yes, you overtook him from outside the track limits - period.

But for what I can see, you did NOT understand what I meant when you asked me about the pit entrance in Season 11.

I meant EXACTLY what the picture above shows - what is 'ok' and what's 'NOT ok'.
But it seems you got it all wrong then - and now as well - and that's why you don't seem to understand the point here...

As I said, I'm not here to judge the incident.
I'm just sharing my opinion about it and clarifying EXACTLY what I said and meant on S11 - and if you got it all wrong, that that's YOUR fault and not mine.

But I also don't like to be unfair, so I'm not here to accuse you of being unfair to Tony.
And I understand you did what you did, because you understood that as being 'legal' on S11 - so you only did what you did, because you assumed it was 'ok' - but also as I said before.. I think it's just a matter of common sense.. and what you did (at least to me) was obviously NOT ok and I thought you understood EXACTLY what I meant, when you asked me about it in S11 - and now I see you didn't...

But anyways...
This is all pointless to argue...
It seems it was a big missunderstanding after all - and if the stewards will penalize you for that or not.. that's up to THEM to decide.

The race was good and nice, especially between you and Tony, so it's a shame the win may be in 'jeopardy' now because of all of this.. Still all we can do is see what the stewards decide, instead of being here 'blabbing' about 'who's to blame' for this or that.




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16 Re: S12 R01 Dubai Grand Prix - Incidents on 5th March 2017, 10:46 pm

It's shame when the race has to be decided by judges after the event. Otherwise, we should just hold a flying lap / time attack competition. Anyway, I think all the drivers who participated ran a great race. We all will see how important this moment is, when the championship is finally determined a few weeks from now. As it is, we are all racing drivers... our focus is ahead, not behind. Welcome Season 12!



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17 Re: S12 R01 Dubai Grand Prix - Incidents on 6th March 2017, 8:07 pm

CLOSED



if i*ve ever offended you, just know that from the bottom of my heart, i really dont give a shit
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