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Season #6 MOD DOWNLOAD (FINAL)

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26 Re: Season #6 MOD DOWNLOAD (FINAL) on 23rd April 2014, 2:40 pm

Arek

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Adrian S Shole wrote:Are we going to have formation laps this season? Smile
I think it's a great idea. We would have more time to react in case of wrong grid order disconnections, lags and stuff like that. Now everything goes too quick. You just appear on the grid and you have to start racing.

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27 Re: Season #6 MOD DOWNLOAD (FINAL) on 23rd April 2014, 6:15 pm

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Waste of time IMO.

Pointless to try to warm up tyres or brakes - it doesn't work like in real life, in case you guys started to play rFactor yesterday.

Even in 'race speed', the car needs 1 or 2 laps to get all warmed up (tyres and brakes), so that slow speed during the pace lap and also all the time between when we finish the pace lap until the actual start of the race does NOT warm up the tyres or the brakes - it's literally a waste of time, tyres and fuel - and also just an extra chance for pseudo-Maldonados to do some little act...

Unnecessary stuff - also in the test races it will be a pain in the ass - especially if we need restarts (and no, it won't 'reduce the number of restarts' AND having restarts it's actually good and testing the actual starts is also pretty important).
Also, Sven would have to restart the server everytime we wanted to activate/deactivate the formation lap (in case we wanted to activate it only for the official races, but not for the test races), so the formation lap would have to be always activated, since I'm pretty sure Sven wouldn't do that...

Anyway... IMO, it brings more negative than positive aspects to the league - more loss than gain.

28 Re: Season #6 MOD DOWNLOAD (FINAL) on 23rd April 2014, 6:44 pm

yes , the tires warm up  after 2 laps  and and wear  too quickly

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29 Re: Season #6 MOD DOWNLOAD (FINAL) on 23rd April 2014, 6:53 pm

tires are fine imo , you need to manage them thats all i can get 10 laps out of supersoft / soft =15-17 etc . so tires are great Smile





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30 Re: Season #6 MOD DOWNLOAD (FINAL) on 23rd April 2014, 7:00 pm

I wanted to have formation here for ages and with this mod it would be particulary good because tyees brakes and other fluids in car would get some temperature, still not optimal temp but I have feeling that even that little bit would help us a lot because this mod with cold brakes and tyres+T1=Catastrophe so Id like to have that too



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31 Re: Season #6 MOD DOWNLOAD (FINAL) on 23rd April 2014, 7:04 pm

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Tony, it won't warm the components up enough to give any actual gain to the car - believe me, I tested it before with lots of different mods.
You guys can test it yourselves offline.
T1 crashes will happen (or not) depending on how careful the drivers are.
The car conditions (with or without formation lap) will be the same to all the drivers. If the car is 'cold', then it just means we all MUST be even more careful until it warms up properly.
As I said before, the 'gains' of a formation lap are really small and practically inexistent. And at the same time the 'negative' aspects of it are bigger than these gains - meaning it's more a waste of time (tyres and fuel) than anything else.
Anyway.. just MY opinion anyway.

32 Re: Season #6 MOD DOWNLOAD (FINAL) on 23rd April 2014, 10:15 pm

I've never saw a rf1 mod which could warm up their tyres in a formation lap without loosing 1-2% tyrewear and that's as bad as if you just let them stay cold. That's only possible at rf2.
But i also know that you could warm your brakes up in pretty much every Mod. But sexy is also right. If you make crashes on the start it's not because cold tyres or cold brakes but because you aren't carefully enough. Never Drive on the limit on a Start. That's all i have to say Smile. But as I remember you don't even crash anymore as much as 2 years ago so you guys really became "clean" on the Start. Keep up the good progress  Basketball




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33 Re: Season #6 MOD DOWNLOAD (FINAL) on 23rd April 2014, 10:48 pm

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Grisu wrote:I've never saw a rf1 mod which could warm up their tyres in a formation lap without loosing 1-2% tyrewear and that's as bad as if you just let them stay cold. That's only possible at rf2.
But i also know that you could warm your brakes up in pretty much every Mod. But sexy is also right. If you make crashes on the start it's not because cold tyres or cold brakes but because you aren't carefully enough. Never Drive on the limit on a Start. That's all i have to say Smile. But as I remember you don't even crash anymore as much as 2 years ago so you guys really became "clean" on the Start. Keep up the good progress  Basketball

Thanks for the patronising essay, FSR superstar  cheers

34 Re: Season #6 MOD DOWNLOAD (FINAL) on 24th April 2014, 3:46 am

I don't really care about temps. I like formation laps because they add a sense of immersion to the race, more realism. In real races I always get excited during the formation lap, it's like the calm before the storm. Very Happy 

I think it would reduce crashes over time, not because of the temperatures, but because it should make drivers more responsible and mature. Many drivers still need to learn how to drive slowly without crashing! The impatience of some drivers is ridiculous (although a billion times better than a few seasons ago).
For example, in many test races, we kindly wait for drivers to catch up, and when they do catch up to us they crash full speed into the back of us by 'accident' or even worse, two drivers under SC crash into each other because the driver behind thinks driving 2mm behind the car in front is a fantastic idea - then the test race gets restarted and it happens again and again and again...

Formation laps would hopefully, over time, teach those people to calm the fuck down and that it is in fact possible to drive an F1 with less than 100% throttle. Some drivers don't seem to understand that. Facehand



Further rant:
A prime example; in Laguna Seca last season, as many people know I like to get out of the pits early in qualifying. I was first in the pit queue and cars started lining up behind me. When the light went green, I went out but made a very stupid mistake by locking rears and spinning on the pit exit road just before it joins the track. I left my car stationary so that I wasn't a moving target. The driver behind me slowed down and had a few seconds to decide what to do with my car blocking the road in front of him.
"Hmmm..." he thought. "Should I go off the track and safely around the outside of this idiot in the BMW?" He continued considering his options. "Oh, I know! I'll just drive straight into the side of him because damaging both cars is a bloody brilliant idea, right!?" 
And so after a very difficult decision, he ruined both our first qualifying laps for absolutely no reason other than utter stupidity. I don't usually get annoyed at things, but drivers like that really, really piss me off. Evil or Very Mad






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35 Re: Season #6 MOD DOWNLOAD (FINAL) on 24th April 2014, 4:15 am

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Who was it?
It's ok if you don't want to say the name of this 'brilliant' driver, but if it was that M Schumacher guy (not the one in coma right now... Rolling Eyes ) that would explain pretty much everything - and he was kicked/banned anyway, so we don't need to worry about him.
Smile

And I'm sorry, but again, I have to disagree with you...
I mean... all of the points you used to 'defend' the use of a formation lap - the drivers behaviour and etc - only shows that we're not 'ready' for it yet and it's kinda 'obvious' to me that we would have at least a few issues here and there during some formation laps - maybe not after a while, that's true though.

BUT...

As I said before, I still think it doesn't bring ANY real bennefit to the league or to the races.
As you said yourself you don't even care about tyre and brakes temps and as I said before, only the formation lap is NOT enough to heat them up anyway - in most mods, but especially in this one, the car needs at least 2 laps in full race speed to get all warmed up, so it's OBVIOUS that a formation lap in a low speed would NOT be enough and it wouldn't change ANYthing on the starting temps - so IF the formation lap was for that purpose only, it would be pointless already.

And IF the other purpose of the formation lap is having it 'just because it's fun and/or more realistic'... then we gotta go back to what you've just said above... We KNOW some issues may happen and we also KNOW it wouldn't be fun at all when they do... - not to mention that it's just not practical for our league 'settings', like when we have some test races and lots of restarts - I know that so many restarts shouldn't happen, but adding a formation lap to the test races won't avoid the restarts to happen, even if they don't happen so oftenly anymore. But even if we need 1 or 2 restarts, in each time we have to call them, we would have to take the whole formation lap again (what about Belgium and other long circuits?! Geez!!..) - and believe me: formation laps in the test races are even worse than in the official race - people are even LESS responsible - so it would only make people annoyed, upset and in the end it would just be a big waste of time.

So, long story short: as I said before, in MY PERSONAL OPINION.. I think formation lap is a bad idea because it's unnecessary to the league (not something we 'must have' in our races) and also just literally a waste of time, tyres, fuel and patience, which could brings us more issues than bennefits.

The final decision comes from the LAT anyway and if most admins and/or most drivers really want formation lap, it's not the end of the world to me, but still here's my opinion and reasons why I don't think it's a good idea or gain to the league.

36 Re: Season #6 MOD DOWNLOAD (FINAL) on 24th April 2014, 4:34 am

Both are right. Sexy wants not to have something which is not usefull but also adrian wants to have something which is realistic or gives you a kind of exciting feeling. Always when i was on Second Place, or third or fourth, and i Drove the Formation lap behind my teammate, or in front of him and than waited on the starting light 20seconds till the lights go on, i got always very exciting and that was always one of the best Moments of the whole race. If i just have to wait 30seconds in the Pit and than press Race and stay on the Start you just can't feel that Pleasure, which you feel one time the whole race when you drive calmly through the track and just think about the Start that you should not mess it Up. ;)I also was Always for a formation lap but not everyone. But since you guys where driving over 5 season i think it's not bad to have at least 1 season with a formation lap and not always the same scenario over and over again Smile. But as sexy said the Lat has to decide  Flag Let the battle beginn  Cool




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37 Re: Season #6 MOD DOWNLOAD (FINAL) on 24th April 2014, 4:52 am

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Not a 'battle' at all.
Just drivers from the league sharing opinions and suggestions.

And I also agree with how Grisu described everything and the 'feelings' involved and etc, but... not everyone thinks or acts like that and I just want us to be practical and think about things that the league really need or that would bring us some benefit and not more issues or worries.

Of course I like some realistic elements and etc as well (otherwise I wouldn't be playing a simulator and would still be playing Mario Kart instead, right?!), but at the same time, I'm here just to have fun and I just want to get on the server, click on the 'race' button and... race.

It's that simple.
Smile

38 Re: Season #6 MOD DOWNLOAD (FINAL) on 24th April 2014, 6:28 am

sexy will hate me for this but i have to agree with adrian..  for one i'm sick of my car being yellow after a lap or 2 cos people dont care about driving into the back of u or pushing and bumping you round a corner wich ends up damaging the rear of the car..  as for a formation lap i cant see why there would be any problems as long as people follow a couple of simple rules,  things like 1 who ever the pole sitter is dont go at a snails pace.  2 if someone does go off dont wait for them, if they catch upto u then let them past,  3 no brake testing or stoping to do burnout,  4 when u get to your grid slot do not park your car past the yellow line, this will stop any moaning about people cheating.  been doing the formation lap for a few years in my other league and the one thing i like is it give u an idea of the grip u have b4 the start of the race.  as for the test races i've never understud why u have full test races cos to me it just takes something away from the real race.  i thought that was the whole idea of practice so u can sort your race setups for the race..   and if u do have a formation lap it does'nt mean u have to to that formation lap in a test race.  i'm not sure how its set up but i no if everyone stays on the grid without moving there car it will override the formation lap and the race will start as normal.  as sexy would say this is just my OPINION Smile

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39 Re: Season #6 MOD DOWNLOAD (FINAL) on 24th April 2014, 7:02 am

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I won't hate you for anything, Cue.
You're a great guy, driver and I know how you feel and I know how bad it is when you get fucked up at the race start by another driver(s) who were not careful enough, but...

Having a formation lap WON'T avoid that kind of incidents.
And you said "as long as people follow a couple of simple rules" - and THAT'S the actual problem..

You named at least 4 rules, just for taking a SIMPLE formation lap - which yes, it should be REALLY easy and even a donkey could do it, right?! But at the same time we know there MAY be issues - maybe not (hopefully) but, for example, we tried an oval race about a year ago and it was a short track and people just couldn't take that small formation lap without doing a lot of shit... Of course I believe we improved from that, but still why running the risk of having stupid issues in a (not necessary at all) formation lap?

The truth is that we have rules for every little thing involving the races and championships and all of them are clear and actually pretty easy to follow and understand, but still some drivers are not that careful, especially at the race starts...
And it's not about having a zillion of rules or formation lap or anything - it's about good driving and being a conscious driver. And THAT, my friend, can only be improved by each driver themselves.

The most we can do is talk about these things, try to 'guide' them in the right way, but in the end we can only hope they learn from their mistakes and improve their driving - and also that they don't hit us at the race start, or at any other moment in the future, so we can all finish the race with that sensation of 'damn, I had lots of fun in this one!'

Let's not forget everyone can make genuine mistakes here and there and I made some myself and still do from time to time, so SOME accidents in our races are actual mistakes and not necessarily careless actions from the drivers.

And oh, I think test races are important and good to test setups and strategies and we can't try to 'forbid' them, or to punish people who are in the server and decided to move to the Race session just to have some fun because they were bored, or because they decided to test their race sets - not to mention we can also have test races offline, so there's no point in trying to 'forbid' them at all. And so the best we can do about them is to 'embrace' them and try to have some fun - I myself test my race set on the practice sessions and except for some very small details, I like the test races more to have some fun than to worry about the real race - test races are good, because they're pretty much like the real races, but without all of that tension of having to score points for the Championship or anything else - not to mention that practicing at least some race starts is also important, especially in some tracks.

Still, as I said before, about the damn formation lap, there's NO actual gain to the car performance (tyres, brakes, etc) and in the end we're just wasting about 3 to 5 mins of our lives, also wasting fuel and  tyre wear and... WHAT for? What's the actual GAIN? Or... Are the supposed gains bigger than all of what's being wasted?

I didn't know though that if the server is set to a formation lap and in case of a test race and if we DON'T want to take the formation lap, all we gotta do is just stand still in the grid and the game will automatically skip the formation lap after a few seconds?!
Well, if so, that's interesting!

BUT...

As I said before, the decison is from the LAT and/or if most drivers want it - and why I'm still 'arguing' about it is a mystery even to myself (why am I so annoying?! Damn, I hate myself) - no big deal to me if we have the formation crap (I mean, lap), although I still think it's a 'bad idea', a complete waste of time and also just something really unnecessary to the league.

So far I didn't read ANY good argument that would 'justify' having a formation lap - not one that would 'convince' me and make me say 'oh, yeah, guys, you are right! Let's have a formation lap, because we really need it!'

WHY do you guys think having a formation lap is a 'must' to our races?
Well, I'm sorry, but it's not.

40 Re: Season #6 MOD DOWNLOAD (FINAL) on 24th April 2014, 8:40 am

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the move from warmup to race is too short

we click next session and then 30 seconds later the lights go out

everybody keeps chatting and making jokes and saying 'good luck' blabla

5 seconds later we're at turn 1 and someone's in the gravel

if a formation lap would calm people down and focus their minds on driving then it would be a great idea, like adrian says

and like arek says, it would give us a chance to correct any grid errors with less of a panic etc

41 Re: Season #6 MOD DOWNLOAD (FINAL) on 24th April 2014, 8:49 am

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Game over, Sexy Brigadeiro!
 silent 

42 Re: Season #6 MOD DOWNLOAD (FINAL) on 24th April 2014, 3:18 pm

Arek

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cueballuk wrote:i'm not sure how its set up but i no if everyone stays on the grid without moving there car it will override the formation lap and the race will start as normal.  as sexy would say this is just my OPINION Smile
That was the only thing to make me have doubts if it comes to having the formation lap. If it's really as Cue says then I have no any doubts anymore that we should have it.

If someone says that the formation lap doesn't affect the car at all they are simply wrong. Maybe on the previous mods that we had in the past there wasn't a big difference but on the current one there is a huge one. The grip of the rear is very low and during our test races yesterday I was being overtaken from any side in the first 3 corners. This is stupid becuase I can't even think about gaining some places but just about not to spin the car. This effect of low rear grip totally disappears after like a half or 3/4 of a lap (exactly same thing happens to me when I do the out lap during the practice) and only then I can push driving as I want so I need this lap. 

And again as Adrian said, when I have a small unintentional burnout when speeding up after the first right harpin there is just two options. The cars from behind with TC pass me instantly by the left or by the right as I was standing in one place or just hit me on my ass causing damage Mad For them it's just easy to drive in a system "01" (full throttle/no throttle) and they can't even imagine that some car in front of them might accelerate a bit slower or even slow down a little while accelerating strugglig with the grip. So if they can't change their driving it would be nice to at least let drivers like me drive in a more confident way during the first lap not to cause any mess and have a chance to fight with the others. And I know it was just a test race where people are driving being less focued and careful but still.

On this mod it's difficult to overtake someone and then to pull away. I mean it's not hard to overtake and have a close fight (which is great) but just to pull away after that. Every place is like a gold. I had a nice fight with Lau who is a faster driver but I could stick to him as if I was glued fighting hard for like 10 laps (we were pasing each other like 2-3 times per lap). So now I can imagine myself losing 5 places in the first corner (even not in the corner but while accelerating after taking it due to lack of the rear grip!) and then getting stuck behind Sexy... Razz No thx. It would be pointless for me to fight in qualifying.

And I agree 100% with Tom.

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43 Re: Season #6 MOD DOWNLOAD (FINAL) on 24th April 2014, 6:38 pm

Adrian S Shole wrote:I don't really care about temps. I like formation laps because they add a sense of immersion to the race, more realism. In real races I always get excited during the formation lap, it's like the calm before the storm. Very Happy 

I think it would reduce crashes over time, not because of the temperatures, but because it should make drivers more responsible and mature. Many drivers still need to learn how to drive slowly without crashing! The impatience of some drivers is ridiculous (although a billion times better than a few seasons ago).
 You put it very nicely there!

I also don't care about the technical stuff what happens in the formation lap, just that it adds, like you said, a sense of 'immersion' into the feeling of the race, it's a psychological thing. Besides that, drivers get to 'warm up' their hands/feet (or fingers, us the kb drivers Very Happy), and that, at list for me, it's an important thing. Going from a blunt garage window to a direct straight into action doesn't 'prepare' you in any way, synthetic, unrealistic, cheap (and that is an important theme invirtual racing)...Formation lap itself is an invitation for carefulness, I think that is the best practice for developing the sense of space so necessary in the following moments. 

I allowed myself to express my opinion (it's an attractive subject this one for me) although I don't know how many races I will participate this season (hope as many!).

Further on that, I will like to make a bet that if this system will go ahead, the number of incidents will be reduced compared with past seasons  Smile  ( of course after the drivers will learn to make the formation lap). Who's on with it?  Very Happy



Race driving is like trying to thread a needle while running from a saber tooth tiger.



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44 Re: Season #6 MOD DOWNLOAD (FINAL) on 25th April 2014, 8:37 am

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Gentlemen...

I'd like to ask you something...

CAN YOU BITCHES STOP WORRYING ABOUT HOTLAPS AS IF WE HAD A RACE 'TOMORROW' AND ACTUALLY JUST TEST THE DAMN MOD AS A WHOLE?!

I mean...

You guys should focus in TESTING ALL possible aspects of the mod...
Engine, ALL tyres compounds, how they behave, how long they last... crashes and damage, pit stop 'stuff' (how long it takes to refuel, change tyres, fix the car in case of damage)... test the draft/slipstream... search for possible 'bugs' or weird behaviours of the car physics/mod, etc, etc, etc...

WHY is it important?!...

Well, because...

Most of the problems we had last season with CTDP were found only AFTER the season had already started and then we couldn't fix everything, unless we would make a lot of changes to the mod, which wouldn't be unfair to some drivers since the season had already begun...

So, the mod we have right now is on the server as a BETA version only and we MUST TEST ALL possible aspects of it and give the admins some feedback, so IF there's something 'really wrong' with the mod, we can fix it BEFORE the season begins - which is supposed to happen only in about 3 weeks from now, so NO NEED TO WORRY ABOUT HOTLAPS RIGHT NOW - damn it...

For example...

We already know that the option for setting the pit stops & fuel strategy at the garage must be added - this is gonna be fixed on the 1st patch...
And also a few other things that I already emailed the admins about.
Still they can't guide everything just by my feedback. They need feedback from ALL of you guys.

Another example...
In ALL the other mods we used in the league so far, we had a bigger tyre wear on the FRONT tyres, but... Right now, I'm getting my bigger tyre wear on my REAR tyres (in case of Bahrain, the left rear tyres) and I'd like to know if the same is happening to everybody - or is it just me?

Anyway...
Right now (on my current car setup) this is how long my tyres are lasting (based on when my REAR left tyre blows):

SS = up to 7 laps.
S = up to 11 laps.
M = up to 16 laps.
H = up to 25 laps.

Anyone else would like to share some data & feedback - if not here and if not to me and everyone, at least send a PM (Personal Message) to one of the admins with your feedback.

45 Re: Season #6 MOD DOWNLOAD (FINAL) on 25th April 2014, 8:44 am

i have testing softs, super softs wing damage pit stop and i think is 3 sec if i remember correct 

softs for me after 10 laps has problems at front left tyre everytime i dont know why




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46 Re: Season #6 MOD DOWNLOAD (FINAL) on 25th April 2014, 8:50 am

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Ok, Giorgos, I know you've been testing these things, because we actually did some tests together - and I know a FEW guys have been testing them too - so thanks for sharing your feedback!

But still MORE guys testing ALL aspects of the mod and also actually giving some feedback at least to the admins is also VERY important.

I would hate if the same that happened last season would happen again this time - and I believe everyone feels the same about it, right?
Smile

47 Re: Season #6 MOD DOWNLOAD (FINAL) on 25th April 2014, 8:31 pm

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The tyres might well be changed

So stop doing hot laps on Super Softs, it's a waste of your time

Especially as we won't use Supers at Bahrain anyway

Better to try hot laps on Hards

48 Re: Season #6 MOD DOWNLOAD (FINAL) on 25th April 2014, 8:39 pm

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Are we gonna be forced to use some specific pack of tyres for each race - determined by the admins (more realistic, but not a good idea IMO)...
Or will we be free to choose whatever pack of tyres we want to use for each race (best to do IMO, giving the drivers more liberty to work with their strategies and setups - also increasing the number of different strategies for each race)?

Another question...
Will we be forced to use BOTH compounds from whatever pack we choose? Or can we use, for example Hards+Hards, Meds+Meds, Softs+Softs (etc) only?

49 Re: Season #6 MOD DOWNLOAD (FINAL) on 25th April 2014, 8:43 pm

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2 compounds will be available at each race (1 specific set).

Drivers can use the specified tyre set however they wish (they do not need to use both compounds).

50 Re: Season #6 MOD DOWNLOAD (FINAL) on 25th April 2014, 8:51 pm

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Still not clear to me...

Can we have, for example... People using a set of SS+S and other people using a set of M+H for the SAME race?

IMO, this would be good. I mean, giving the drivers the freedom to use whatever set of tyres they want - this would give a bigger number of different possible strategies and would make the races more interesting.

If everybody is forced to use the same set of tyres - let's say, for example S+M, in a track where it's impossible to complete the race on M+M... then everyone would be going for the same strategy, which would probably be S+S+S - anyway... just a silly example, but the point is: the bigger the number of different strategies we can have for each race, the better IMO.

Give the drivers as much freedom as possible about their strategies - the mod and car setup feels different to each driver and maybe in terms of hotlaps there may be a big gap between some drivers but with different strategies during the race itself, the gap may be closer in the end, making the races more interesting to everyone!
Smile

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